For the first time in this scene their eyes are raised up past the red into the white (of the walls). The two men converse to each other, but all the while are actually looking past each other. One of Ullman's ash trays is on the right and left side of the screen.

GRADY "I'm sorry to differ with you, sir. But you are the caretaker. You've always been the caretaker. I should know, sir. I've always been here."